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The Pitfalls of the Dr. Weston A. Price Diet…

Following on from the last post that mentions primitive diets and the work of Dr. Weston A. Price, I thought  I would add my two cents worth on the the subject.

From Amazon: “For nearly 10 years, Weston Price and his wife traveled around the world in search of the secret to health. Instead of looking at people afflicted with disease symptoms, this highly-respected dentist and dental researcher chose to focus on healthy individuals, and challenged himself to understand how they achieved such amazing health.

Dr. Price traveled to hundreds of cities in a total of 14 different countries in his search to find healthy people. He investigated some of the most remote areas in the world. He observed perfect dental arches, minimal tooth decay, high immunity to tuberculosis and overall excellent health in those groups of people who ate their indigenous foods. He found when these people were introduced to modernized foods, such as white flour, white sugar, refined vegetable oils and canned goods, signs of degeneration quickly became quite evident.

Dental caries, deformed jaw structures, crooked teeth, arthritis and a low immunity to tuberculosis became rampant amongst them. Dr. Price documented this ancestral wisdom including hundreds of photos in his book, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.”

There is a strong movement that supports Dr. Price’s work and encourages the consumption of animal products, raw milk, butter, grass fed beef and a natural diet.  Of course there is a lot of merit in this as any diet that takes us away from processed, packaged and artifical food is a positive step in people’s health.

However, what I have found with the few people I have treated as a Naturopath who are following this diet – is that they have incorporated huge amounts of meat and fat into their diet at the expensive of just about everything else.

Porridge with great dollops of cream, cream in the coffee, two eggs with butter and a lamb chop with the fat – and that is just breakfast!!  Where is the living green food in that?

It is no wonder that the few people I have seen in clinic who are eating in this way, have become quite sick, all of them were overweight, had very high cholesterol (a marker of poor liver function and oxidation) and had developed type 2 diabetes.  As I have mentioned before, type 2 diabetes is a problem with too much fat in the diet – not sugar.

So even though there are some positive messages in the Weston A. Price research – we also have to place the context of that information into today’s life.  We are mainly sedentary and full of toxins, and it has been shown by other researchers such as T Colin Campbell that a diet that consists of 10% of less animal products is one that can prevent many degenerative diseases.

So from my experience – raw, living, whole plant foods need to make up the bulk of your diet to achieve excellent health!

Leisa

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30 thoughts on “The Pitfalls of the Dr. Weston A. Price Diet…”

  1. Robin Comolli said

    Dear Leisa,
    The Weston A. Price “Diet” is not a diet. It is meant to be a lifestyle which is followed in a natural healthy way. These are the principles of Dr. Price and the amazing group of scientists, farmers, authors, teachers, volunteers and regular people who comprise the membership of the Weston A. Price Foundation . The clients you speak about are simply gluttons who are using these principles to excuse their radical behaviour. Obviously, if they are seeking you out as a doctor they are out of balance and unwell! You forgot to mention that vegetables both steamed and raw, salads, bone broths, and fermented foods are also part of the prescribed healthy eating schedule of this lifestyle. It is a pity if anything you have said in your column discourages people from learning about the truth of processed milk (ever wonder why so many people are lactose intolerant?) and feed lot animals. As a Holistic Nutritionist, I caution you against promoting any form of radical “diet” and this must include the “raw foodists”.
    If you would really like to understand The Weston A. Price “Diet”, I am sure Sally Fallon et al.would be happy to send you any one of the many edifying books they have about the Foundation.

  2. Dear Robin,
    This short blog post was not meant to be an in-depth expose of the pro’s and con’s of the principles of the Weston A. Price lifestyle and program. What is was, was a caution to people who may misinterpret teachings that advocate animal products as a part of a healthy diet, and take on those teachings to the exclusion of fresh, living food.

    Being a naturopath who has experimented with any and all types of diets and healing regimes over 20 years, I have studied the work of Weston A. Price and Sally Fallon in depth, and am very familiar with the principles of their work. However, my point was that in clinic I have had several patients who have read the books and been to the Weston A. Price foundation meetings and their interpretation of what they learned, led them to eat the way that I described. To call these people simply gluttons is incredibly judgemental and inappropriate. These people were searching for answers to their health problems and thought they were doing the right thing with the information they were exposed to. I was not at these meetings so I cannot comment on how or why they interpreted the information this particular way – but as it is not a singular occurence, it leads me to believe that certain parts of Dr. Weston A. Price’s teachings may be being promoted over other essential elements of his work.

    If you read my tagline it says “Healing is a journey, not just a raw food diet” – so I would not class myself as promoting any form of “radical” diet – but holistic healing on all levels, and that includes a diet that excludes processed foods and embraces a diet largely based on whole, living foods as found in nature. There are many paths to healing, and I believe that as practitioners we need to show compassion and understanding of where our patients are at, and not use righteousness to promote only one way of eating.

    Anyone familiar with my work knows that I don’t promote an exclusively 100% raw vegan diet, and that in my lectures I speak of many dietary considerations in healing. My own personal belief, and from the results I have seen in patients and in my own health, is that a high percentage of raw food is optimal for most people. Beyond that, it is very individual as to the amount of animal products incorporated into the diet and I encourage people to experiment with themselves and trust their own body to tell them when they have found the balance that gives them optimal health.

    I trust this explanation of my post clears up those misunderstandings.

    Warm regards,
    Leisa

  3. “Porridge with great dollops of cream, cream in the coffee, two eggs with butter and a lamb chop with the fat – and that is just breakfast!!”
    Even Dr Price would be shocked by this breakfast. I am a nutritionist who has taught and priscribed Price’s style of diet. I”ve had really good results. People can misuse the diet but on the other hand people do also misuse the low fat diet where they fail to include foods such as nuts and avocados because they are “fatty”.
    That’s why people need you and I to explain how to go about fixing their diet. You can’t blame Dr Price. Even your advice can be misinterpreted.

  4. Dear Kaspa,
    Yes, I’m sure Dr Price would be shocked by that breakfast! I agree. Unfortunately there are plenty of people out there who are misrepresting his style of diet and people do use this as an excuse to indulge themselves and justify it as being “healthy” because of some misconstrued advice. It really is about balance as you say – and eating whole foods as opposed to processed, getting enough good fats and being sensible about whatever program you choose to incorporate. I certainly don’t blame Dr. Price – and yes, my advice can and has been misinterpreted many a time!
    Leis

  5. John Coughlan said

    People are so confused now about diets,the fact is that its the very people that should be finding”the truth”that’s causing confusion.so lets keep things simple and until we really know the answer ,lets keep to what we do know which is.
    1.Its not currently proven yet that stuffing ourselves full of meat,cream ,Milk etc(which is always processed and has chemicals added)is a good idea.

    what is a good idea though is to eat good leafy green vegetables,fruit(not too much)and some good oily fish.(wash the fruit and source wild salmon or wild fish)not fish fingers!.
    Its also a good idea to stay away from bread,flour and all other unnatural oils and fats.(yes even olive oil)basically anything that goes through “a complex process” or is in a packet should be avoided.
    (until science can agree) . I’m also not a big fan of soya ,as that too needs to go through a process to be edible.
    Basically imagine yourself in a kind of jungle Amazonian type primal surviving scenario(but your really in Tesco,s or sainsburys)then look at all the lovely colours of fruit, vegetables, and lovely fresh fish.then look at the frozen meal section and the everything wrapped in a packet section!(Yuk) .Its not rocket science,its really not!.If someone came to me and said”I’ve got heart disease from eating fresh fish, vegetables and fruit and moderate exercise,I would say”Nuts!”and yes they are healthy too, without salt and in moderation.

  6. Pam Kavanagh said

    My question is basic. Where are the replication studies? Has any follow up work focused on the many variables (in particular activity level) that appears to be ignored?

    I, too, believe strongly in “real” food. However, I like a good portion of my food to be from the ground and as organic as possible.

  7. Pam’s comment [2/5/10] is relevant

    I i swtiched tomorrow to the original Masai diet of mainly milk, meat and blood (3 meals a day to 80% satiety), don’t know if it would be the best thing for me (or you).

    Everything’s relative and specific – Masai diet worked fine for the Masai, Okinawan diet works fine for the Okinawans, vegan diet works fine for 60-year old vegan Ironman triathletes, and so on.

    You have to learn about your own body and figure out what works. Also helps to be intellectually curious and intelligent enough to understand the science and potential flaws in scientific arguments made by people coming from all parts of the spectrum (i.e., not be dogmatic)

    I like the writings and recommendations of:

    1. Michael Pollan: “eat food. not too much. mostly plants”

    2. Gary Taubes: author of “Good Calorie, Bad Calorie”

    3. Dr (dentist) Weston Price

    Does that surprise you? It shouldn’t – think about it.

  8. Dear Ashok,
    Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply. I agree wholeheartedly with you and in all my teachings I encourage people to get in touch with their own body wisdom as to the best diet that suits them. Which can change during different stages of life, different stresses etc. I agree with eating real foods as found in nature – but within that realm, finding the best combination of foods can be an exercise in learning, experimenting and observing. As Ashok says, read, learn, but be wary of dogmatic principles.
    Leisa

  9. Very crucial in this conversation to include is the source of meat and cream. The meat, butter and milk MUST begin with the soil and how an animal is raised. It completely changes the structure of the food and how it tastes and is metabolized.

    The soil where food starts cannot be contaminated but must be teeming with the billions of microorganisms that sustain the chain of life. The meat must come from grass-fed cows and bison. The chickens should not be fed soy and they should be free to roam on healthy land where they can eat bugs and all the little things they enjoy.

    I am one of those people who thought I was going to die until I discovered Weston A. Price and his principles. I regained my neurological system and I got body tone in my breasts and butt that I never had enjoyed before.

    Also, don’t forget how important fermentation is in food preparation. That is where so many rich enzymes, vitamins and nutrients are generated. How we grow and prepare food is everything. You know when you are healthy. Finally, I feel satisfied eating food that has substance and protects my brain and nerve cells.

    Don’t think Weston A. Price is some fad diet. It’s about observation and honoring the natural wisdom of nature–and that requires study and firsthand experience to understand.

  10. Dear Gina,
    Thanks very much for your comments – I agree, the principles of the Weston A. Price diet are certainly not a fad and incorporate some incredibly valuable insights and information about food, health and the environment we live in. The importance of the soil, the food that comes from it, the animals that eat that food etc is vital and going against the priniciples of nature does nothing but harm for us, the animals and the environment. I incorporate many of the Weston A. Price principles in with my food, yet I choose to eat a mainly raw vegan diet with some exceptions such as raw butter, which is serving me well. I personally happen to have quite severe allergies to both eggs and dairy (even raw cultured) and choose to have very little meat in my diet for many reasons. I believe that each person needs to find their own balance in eating whole foods – and understanding of course, what is meant by whole, real food as found in nature and not interfered with by humans.
    Leisa

  11. ..even top class athletes are doing this such as Craig Fitzgibbon from Hull FC and Anthony Minichiello from the Sydney Roosters National Rugby League Club…Anthony actually had 4 Bulging discs and was told his spinal chord was “rotting from the inside out”..he missed the majority of 4 years of his sporting life,until he found this.this lifestyle,especially the bone broths got him through many surgical operations that the majority of us wouldnt last through…he is now back to his blistering best,with the best of his life to come…check the guys out,google them if you’d like to see first hand results of exactly how healthy you can be if you stick to this lifestyle and get regular exercise

  12. Price was a dentist way back when they were still using pedal powered tooth drills and opium as sedatives, and ripped people’s teeth out with pliers or a rope tied to a slamming door. The term “dentist” then has very little in common with today’s dental practitioners – about as much in common as a middle ages leechmonger with a modern neurosurgeon. It’s unbelievable that the WAPFers act as though his trade and hands on skills then lent him any credibility as a researcher and dietitian in today’s scientific world.

    BTW, the term “nutritionist” is not regulated by any board or certification. Anyone can call themself a “nutritionist”. It’s a bit like a modern day 10 year old kid wanting to be a dentist, but not having the paperwork or degree, and calling themselves a “toothiologist” instead. Would you trust them with your health?

    So WAPF’s “nutritionists” are a bit of a standing joke in the scientific world of nutrition, because any scientist worth their salt knows it’s a title worth zip. By the way, I’m a “nutritionist” too ;-) And a “toothiologist” – just like Price ;-)

    Why on EARTH anyone would believe Price’s so-called “research” is beyond me. At the time, modern research standards (peer review etc.) had not yet been established, and shuffling results around to suit hypotheses was common. As for Price himself, take a look at his original “research” and I’m sure you’ll agree with me: his paperwork was appalling, his data a mess, and his conclusions shoddy, illogical and ill-drawn.

    My conclusion: Looking at the “articles” on their website and the ridiculously outdated cookbooks they sell: These WAPFers belong back in the dark ages – along with the leechmongers that they’d probably get on well with.

  13. Charlotte said

    You know the vast majority of people I would go to for nutritional advice don’t have any titles behind their names, and I would never refer anyone I love or care about to get advice from most people who do have some sort of ‘nutritionist’ label. Those are the people I’m most leery of…I haven’t heard anything new come out of America’s mouth, not sure why they need “experts” to get across the same idea to us, that saturated fat is bad, we should only eat lean white meat, lots of whole grains (no emphasis on how they are prepared, just get Kashi Go Lean Cereal), and the largest portion of our plate should be a salad with no eggs or nuts, because they are too fattening, right? And no butter, and no whole milk, only fat free cheese! The problem is that according to Morgan Spurlock, Americans are indeed the most obese country in the world, and the other problem is, a lot of today’s modern health conditions took on their first incidence only over one hundred years ago…

    If I want nutrition advice, I don’t look at whether or not the provider has credentials, I look at the words that are coming out of the person’s mouth. Beef liver can’t be linked to heart disease when Americans don’t eat beef liver. I would much rather blame Kashi Go Lean and fat free milk, basically just look at whatever it is that Americans eat! Somehow we trust mankind to tinker with the food supply and modify it in such a way that it is “healthy.” We fail to understand how complex each nutrient is that God created, and we try to isolate and tweak certain factors, creating this highly processed mess that we call food.

  14. Rebecca Bartsch said

    Leisa,
    You mention that, in your opinion, the optimal diet is one with a high percentage of raw food and then the amount of animal foods is more individual. I do agree that raw foods serve my body the best, but I believe you were not including raw animal foods in the high percentage of your recommended diet.
    I find my body does quite well with abundant raw milk, cream, butter, cheese, eggs, liver and other organs as well as raw ( or partially raw ) meat. The vegetables that feed my body the best are raw lacto-fermented. Raw coconut in all its forms is a great food for me. I also enjoy abundant raw nuts if they are soaked/sprouted. I find that I can only have a very small amount of fruit without gaining weight.
    For the first time in my adult life (I am 62 yrs. old) I have found the way to keep from gaining weight. I simply do not eat grains or sugars of any kind and just an occasional half piece of fruit. Although that may sound a bit austere to some, I am never hungry, fully satisfied, have more energy and feel better than ever before. I am very choosy about the sources of my meat/fish, dairy, etc. and, with the exception of coconut oil, I do not eat vegetable oils. But I do give myself permission to eat all the gorgeous delicious, satisfying fats and meats that I desire. My weight hasn’t changed for the 4 years I have eaten this diet. All my bloodwork is better than ever. I have the blood pressure, blood glucose and cholesterol levels that I have always desired.
    All my life I have had a serious weight problem. I could always lose the weight with the grit your teeth low calorie exercise plan. But of course you cannot live your life that way, so whenever I would go off the diet I would gain back more weight than before. I know this is an often sung saga for many of us. The doctors, health professionalists, nutritionist and diet gurus all had it wrong all those years as they told us to cut calories and fat. The truth, as I experience it, is just beginning to peek its lovely head into the mainstream. Note the Feb 2011 edition of the Reader’s Digest ( a very conservative periodical) has a front page noted article called “The New Science of Dieting” .
    I really want to stress that this is not all about dieting and losing or maintaining weight. It is about robust and glowing health and an entire lifestyle that brings us closer to the farms, to the sea, to our traditional roots. It has given me back my life.
    I am eternally grateful to Dr. Weston A. Price for shining a light.
    Rebecca

  15. Rebecca Bartsch said

    I would add one more point. I found “The Vegetarian Myth” to be a most inspiring, informative and potent book. It was written by Lierre Keith who was a vegan for 20 years. For anyone who wants to keep an open mind about this debate, I highly recommend this book.
    Rebecca

  16. Hi Rebecca,
    I appreciate your comments and what you have found to work for you. I did just want to make the point that Lierre Keith was not a vegan – she says she was a vegan for 20 years, but then in interviews says she binged on eggs and dairy every chance she got, which is definitely not a vegan diet. I agree with your point about not starving yourself to lose weight – and I think that is a huge point – I have found from my experience, that at times when eating a raw food diet I can undereat calories – not through restriction, but just through eating a lot of veggies that are low in calorie – and when I do that, my weight goes up as my metabolism slows down in “starvation mode”. It is very easy to get a lot of calories when eating animal products, and vegans or vegetarians have to work a lot harder and put more thought and preparation in to making sure they have enough calories to stimulate and upregulate the metabolism. When they do, and eat good quality food (how many vegans use this label as an excuse to eat white bread and hot chips every day?) then weight is not normally an issue either. A whole food diet is always going to be an improvement on a processed diet – but many would have moral and ethical issues with eating meat – so the WAP approach is not for everyone.

    Here is a blog post about the Lierre Keith book – I haven’t read it, so I cannot write my opinion yet – but this seems like a valid point of view:

    http://beforewisdom.com/blog/veganism/the-vegetarian-myth-by-lierre-keith/

    “I met Lierre Keith for a few days back in the 1990s and again around the year 2000 as we had gotten involved in ( successfully ) fighting some ugly discrimination issues in Massachusetts. About a year ago, I heard about a new anti-vegan book by someone with the same unique name as hers. I hadn’t had contact with her in years, but I hoped, as I typed her name into Google that it wasn’t her. It was.

    A lot has been written on the internet about her book and I’ve added my own opinion in a few of those places. Until now, I have been hesitant to write anything about it on my blog. That changed a few days ago when an acquaintance directed me to a youtube video with an audio excerpt of one of her radio interviews .

    The upshot is, that there was a quote from her where she admitted that she binged on eggs and milk every chance she got. You can find the full interview here. http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/64995 The quote mentioned happens a little bit after 4:45.

    All of that drama, that came from all directions, over her book, and Lierre Keith never was a vegan.

    For all Keith knows about the true origin of her health problems, she could have contracted one of the many diseases produced by factory farmed animal products while she was a “vegan” binging on eggs and dairy.

    If you are curious about her book “The Vegetarian Myth” I recommend reading the two reviews linked to below.

    Lierre Keith does not have formal credentials or experience in the diverse topics she writes about in “The Vegetarian Myth”. The authors of the reviews linked to below do, and the gist of their reviews is that she has gotten even the basic facts of those subjects wrong, let alone her much more stronger claims.

    Judge for yourself …”

    Review #1
    http://tinyurl.com/2bhvh5n

    Review #2
    http://tinyurl.com/2ufrbtc

    Leisa

  17. Carol the Dabbler said

    Quoted from Leisa’s post above: “… many would have moral and ethical issues with eating meat – so the WAP approach is not for everyone.”

    The WAP folks also seem to think that their diet is unsuitable for vegetarians — but even their signature cookbook (Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon) grudgingly admits that it’s perfectly possible to follow their guidelines as an ovo-lacto vegetarian — even as an ovo-lacto high-raw vegetarian like me! (And for the 100% raw fooder with a stomach much stronger than mine, there are several recipes for raw-meat dishes.)

    The book recommends soaking all seeds before eating them (and includes detailed instructions for doing so), and encourages eating fermented foods at every meal. There’s even a recipe for Rejuvelac (with a nice little tip of the hat to Ann Wigmore). One of the book’s major emphases is on raw dairy products, which seem to be growing in popularity with the raw-food community as well.

    I have yet to find a recipe book from any school of thought that I can agree with completely, but Nourishing Traditions has a great number of recipes that I find useful — far more than most raw-food recipe books.

  18. What about the traditional Inuit diet which is almost entirely saturated fat, including whale blubber, and contains virtually no greens. They’re not that much overweight when they follow their traditional diet and they’ve got the strength and endurance that is to be truly envied.

  19. Life is a journey, and so are our food choices. For me, research and experimentation with food has lead me to a new path and insight about the food I eat. I feed my body wholesome food whenever possible, whether it be raw dairy, organic vegetables, soaked grains, or grass fed beef – this is what my food journey looks like right now. This is what works for me based on what I have learned and experimented with and how it makes me feel. I believe we are all individuals and have different needs, including our food choices. Food is very personal and an individual matter. What works for one doesn’t always work for another. No right or wrong here. Obviously, if we have bad health, we know something isn’t working for us, the proof is in how we feel and look physically. Have confidence in what you are doing in life if it feels right for you. We don’t always need to wrong others or find flaws in other peoples work or choices to make ourselves feel more confident in our own lives. I know what constitutes a healthy diet but am always learning new things every day – it’s a journey and I will be forever learning.

  20. STephen said

    I have used the Weston A Price diet with its principles for a few years and there are some observations to make. My body weight has increased by forty pounds, and there is a thin layer of insulating fat covering my torso. I look ‘beefy.’ Like a farm boy. This is mainly due to the raw milk and cream component.

    I also perform anaerobic exercise. The diet I’ve found very helpful in maintaining toned muscles on my limbs, and a firm back. Also, I am freed from sugary highs and lows for simply rethinking what a meal looks like.

    Your description of breakfast is one I also would find excessive; but, importantly, not true to any firm principles of Weston A Price: reduce sugars, ferment grains, consume natural saturated fats, eat traditionally, eat raw, eat whole. These are all sound… in moderation! I doubt there are many people who are not already overweight or obese that would consume your sample breakfast… For maintaining body mass, however, the diet is superb. It is a key for older people and the malnutritioned.

    The last note and genuine gift of the Price protocols is fermenting grains. I personally suffered from dysbiosis with symptoms of IBS for a year and a half. Probably due to reckless use of antibiotics, as is sometimes the case. But when I began a simple breakfast of grains fermented the night previously (all discussed and directed by “Nourishing Traditions,” the book of the Price Foundation), my symptoms went away very quickly. I imagine the probiotics and B-vitamins applied to my intestinal wall is the reason for its success.

    There are many useful ways of viewing nutrition from the Price perspective, especially in contradistinction to the conventional, mass diet of North America in the millennium. I wouldn’t care to shoo any readers from picking up “Nourishing Traditions” and experimenting with its precepts. It will likely fill a nutritional void. AS for an all-in, I must agree with you.. I feel sluggish and heavy when I had committed fully to the wholly fat way. I am grateful for my proper body weight but do not enjoy the veneer of natural fat over my torso from raw milk IGF-boosting. The operation of its diet has been scaled back in light of these developments. I am moderating and tailoring the information to best fit my lifestyle, yet also taking it at its word and curtailing bad habits.

  21. Dear Stephen,
    Thank you for your well thought out and written response. I think you understood the point I was trying to make – as others may not have. There is a lot of wonderful benefits in the Weston A Price diet – the point I was trying to make is that it can be abused and that’s not healthy either :-) I appreciate your observations and input.
    Leisa

  22. It is only natural that people would misinterpret your article, since you titled it, “The Pitfalls of the Dr. Weston A. Price Diet” The word “pitfall” in the title along with the name, “Dr. Weston A Price”, carries a sense that there is something wrong with the Dr. Weston Price way of eating, when there is not. The problem you describe is people not clearly understanding any diet they chose to follow and then having their health decline because of it when they apply it incorrectly. It might be better if you changed the title of your article to something that more accurately describes the problem -which is the patients, not which diet they are following.

  23. Your article and article heading does generate lively debate which I find valuable in itself. Looking at the lifestyles and the diets of different races can be helpful to modern man. Many of the old doctors like Bernard Jensen and Alfred Vogel also did this. I own my own health store in New Zealand so spend a lot of time researching how healthy populations ticked.
    Your breakfast example made me laugh. The only thing I’d change would be the lamb chop for bacon. Then that would be a great breakfast for me.
    After all my studies the most important factors I’ve found that help keep you healthy. Make sure you well cook meat, fish and selfish. Meditation and the connection between mind and matter. Mind and matter are one and the same. Pure mind pure body.

  24. If you think that Type 2 diabetes is a consequence of fat and not sugar/carbs, you REALLY need to read Gary Taubes’ “Good Calories, Bad Calories”. Hopefully, it won’t be too technical for you. It should be required reading by anyone who eats! I wonder what your sickly patients who SAID they were eating a Weston Price inspired diet were really eating.

  25. If you really think that the so called “bad cholesterol” in the blood is caused by too much animal fats (and not from too much carbohydrates and vegetable oils) you really must check The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics – http://thincs.org/ and the latest research that has been done. When I ask my grandmas who were all born and raised in the countryside and raised according to the olden ways before the real agro-industrial revolution took its hold. Well, they cooked only with animal fats and have never used refined sugar and such. Yes, they grew wheat but they still had very different diets and lifestyles from my parents and me.

  26. Sara Mellgren said

    After reading your article and the full discussion I would like to add the following points:

    1) T. Colin Campbell’s China Study has been debunked. Subsequent analysis of the original data only showed that there was only one positive correlation to coronary artery disease. That correlation was wheat consumption, NOT consuming animal products. So, either Campbell was incompetent in the data analysis or he lied to promote his agenda. For an excellent walk through of the data analysis see Denise Minger’s blog, RawfoodSOS.
    2) Many people who use the internet to find health information through blogs, such as this, know that corruptocrats from big pharma, and big agriculture CONTROL government policy and regulations. Mary Emig, PhD, from the Price Foundation was a lone wolf crying in the dark. Emig tesitified before congress in 1977 about the dangers of transfats. Without the tenacity of the Price Foundation keeping the transfat issue alive, the detrimental effects of these harmful fats, may still not be known and government policy may not have been changed. Before casting this organization in a negative light, one should recognize the positive and benefical work this organization has accomplished for those choosing a vegetarian or omnivorous diet. Because they are not influenced by the corruptocrats, I tend to put much more faith in their research. I encourage readers to visit their website to explore the current issues in which they are being the lone wolf.
    3) Lierre Keith revealing a “binge” on high quality protein exemplifies that his vegan diet was not meeting his protein needs. It is natural and normal for people to crave nutrients they are deficient in. What is not natural and normal is suppressing those cravings to give oneself a “superiority complex.” The psychological boost one gains from suppressing these urges is irrational. It has long been known that those suffering from anorexia nervosa can not be treated with those suffering from bulemia because those with a.n. feel superior to those with bulemia. Irrational isn’t it?? Those suffering from a.n. suffer serious and deadly health effects because their psychological needs trump their physical needs. Vegans who fall into this same traps are not any different. We all loved and admired Steve Jobs, unfortunately, as one of the most famous vegans, I wonder if this trap did not have an impact on his early demise.

  27. Meat Eater said

    There is so much research now pointing to a “Paleo” diet as being one of the healthiest diets ever, such as the work of Harvard Scientist couple Paul & Shou-Ching Jaminet who studied, like Dr Weston Price, the diets around the world and have discovered that lower carbs are better for the human body. Yes it includes eating meat but its ALWAYS encouraged by them to be the free range grass fed ethical beef or chicken or pig, because those are the healthiest and as it turns out, the most humane and best for the environment. Vegans should be willing to eat meat in this way if they read the research into how much healthier actual animal meat is than the plant versions of protein. Most if not all beans (and grains) unless sprouted or fermented have anti-nutrients in them that promote the leaky gut. This leads to not absorbing the vitamins and minerals in fruits and veggies and also an excess of carbohydrates in the body promotes an insulin response (and inflammation) that without immediate exercise to burn them up leads to storage of fat. You can eat fat and protein and not get fat in the absence of too many carbs eaten at the same time. I would like to say that there shouldn’t be a war between vegans and the people following the advice of Dr Gary Taubes or Robb Wolf or Dr Price and Julie Ross as it seems there is a connection of all these ways of thinking about diet that are extremely healthy as shown by all the people eating this way and feeling better and their biomarkers in blood work shows up healthier. Vegans are eating healthier than most mainstream people too, in that they are consuming FAR greater fruits and veggies. But vegans and vegetarians bodies also store excess carbs as fat even if they are ‘healthy” carbs. And the protein sources aren’t as rich in all the micronutrients that meat have. That being said, i do believe that a temporary vegan diet, but more of a juice fast, using raw organic veggies and fruits as used by the Gerson method can actually cure cancer as they are proving in their clinic in Tijuana (where they have had to set up shop because the U.S. doesn’t want to go out of business in the BIG money making “cancer killing” game) Look, vegans and the Dr. Price and Paleo diets have A LOT in common actually. the Paleo diet is similar to a vegan diet in that they eat no dairy and eat A LOT of organic veggies and some fruits and nuts and seeds. they just eat meat as well. BUT it is grass fed humanely treated meat. and as it turns out, the scientific proof shows that this meat is healthier. Meat in itself is beneficial to the body in ways mainstream doctors do not want to admit. Raw organic grass fed dairy milk is also outlawed but it is 1,000% better than the only kind allowed to be sold in stores for the common people. Most Paleo diet followers find the no dairy “rule” of the diet to be sort of a “see if it affects you personally” kind of rule and i think that if its raw milk, it won’t have the negative effects that dairy can have. I personally don’t understand the moral view that not eating animals in the detriment of your own health as being better. The human body needs protein. We are made up of fat and muscle. We are what we eat. We do need some vitamins and minerals and the best sources of those are in fruits and veggies. Depending on where you live, and now because of the ozone, most humans don’t get enough vitamin D and the best way to get that into our system is an animal source, fermented cod liver oil and high in vitamin K2 grass fed butter oil. Thanks to the research of Dr. Priee, we know that. And amazingly enough, eating it (and following a Paleo diet) your body can remineralize enamel even right over cavities! Now, if some fish have to humanely die so that we humans, the supposed higher species can be healthier, i feel that that is ok. Why save the animals from death only to have our own health go downhill? Whether you believe in God or in evolution, it doesn’t make sense not to eat animals. It DOES make sense to raise them humanely, and kill them humanely in order to be healthier.

  28. Dear Meat Eater,
    Thanks so much for your balanced and educated response. You have mentioned a lot of very good points and ones that I do talk about quite often. There is always going to be argument and debate on the moral grounds of eating animals – and I do have a lot of respect for those who can manage a vegan diet and do it well enough to cover their needs – which is possible, but definitely a lot of work and care must be taken. On the other side I have a lot of time for your points about humanely killed animals, although this is a very difficult thing to police and there if very little that is humane in the world of eating animals. However, if you are dedicated to eating ethically, you will find sources of animal products (you may still not choose to eat meant, as such, but for example may include fermented goat’s milk, for example) that may pass the ethical test, and I do think that is something that may differ from person to person and each one needs to do their own research and find what is ethically right for them. I don’t believe though, that people should put their head in the sand and not know every detail about where their food comes from and how it was processed to get there. For example, my partner loves to fish. He fishes in the clean waters around our local area and does no harm to any other creatures in the catching of that fish. That fish is treated with respect and humanity and I believe there is a place for this. Many won’t agree with me and that is fine too. I look to nature, and we do live in a world where animals kill each other for food – we can argue that humans have a higher consciousness and that we can make the choice to not eat other animals, and I see a lot of validity in that argument as well. But it does come down to our health and I agree with you, that a raw, vegan, detox program is one of the best healing programs for certain diseases, however in my experience, it is not necessarily the best choice for life. Building in those small amounts of eithically based animal products can be a life-saver for some, and that is why I don’t ever preach that there is one and only one path to health. I fully agree that there are a lot of similarities in these diets – they are not fully opposing – but have complements in many, many areas; and I think a lot more discussion could be had, without the judgement and radicalism that we see, to find that common ground and expand on the ideas of whole foods and ethical eating.
    Thank you for your comment. Leis xx

  29. Hi some great points from everyone just wondering why meateater has a response but Kay didn’t. Same for Marie and Sara. She has pulled one of your main Facts into question; “It is no wonder that the few people I have seen in clinic who are eating in this way, have become quite sick, all of them were overweight, had very high cholesterol (a marker of poor liver function and oxidation) and had developed type 2 diabetes. As I have mentioned before, type 2 diabetes is a problem with too much fat in the diet – not sugar” i would be interested on your rebuke?
    Have you seen a movie called ‘Fathead the movie’? it addresses some of these issues too.
    always good to see open debate rather than one sided sensationalism..

  30. I’d be careful citing T Colin Campbell’s work.
    While in principle I think his message is almost there, his work has been pointed out several times by various researchers as heavily flawed. People like Denise Minger, Anthony Colpo, and Chris Masterjohn have written convincingly of this and the fact that campbell’s data can only substantiate one small claim of his and none other.

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